The ACTING Attorney-GENERAL said the words “not exceeding” ought to be inserted.
Hon. A. P. MACEWEN said he still thought penalty too heavy.
The ACTING CHIEF JUSTICE said he thought the hon. member need not be afraid that the Magistrates would inflict the maximum penalty. Hon. A. P. MACEWEN said with all deference to His Honour, they were not dealing with probabilities. Such a case might arise,
Hon. C. P. CHATER said he thought the fine of $200 was too heavy. He moved as an amendment “not exceeding $100 or to imprisonment not exceeding three months."
His EXCELLENCY—You must recollect this would only come into operation in a time of very great peril and under most exceptional circumstances. It appears to me there is no danger, as His Honour remarked just now, in entrusting the Magistrate with that power in a moment of very great peril to the whole Colony.
The SURVEYOR-GENERAL said that under normal circumstances the penalty might be considered very heavy, but the section would only apply when the circumstances were abnormal, when the whole of the Colony was exposed to a most formidable danger.
Hon. C. P. CHATER—I do not think a heavy fine or being imprisoned for six months would prevent the people from infringing the by-laws, but having once done so I think the sentence would be too severe.
Hon. P. RYRIE said he agreed with his hon. friend on the right. He thought a fine of $100 or three months' imprisonment would be sufficient. He therefore seconded the amendment.
The COLONIAL TREASURER—I really cannot agree with the gentlemen opposite. Perhaps they will allow me to remind them of what happened at the time when there was cattle disease in the colony. Some cattle were slaughtered and buried on the other side of Happy Valley, but that was not sufficient to elude Chinese ingenuity and watchfulness, and some Chinese came and took up these loathsome carcasses, cut them up, and some portions were offered as human food in the market. That was only in the case of cattle disease. But suppose that what the Colony was threatened with was cholera or something of that kind, and suppose some Chinese compradore or trader to put five dollars in his pocket—and he would do it without the slightest hesitation—lets loose upon the population the risk, or the certainty, perhaps, of cholera. I do not hesitate to say in that case a fine of $100 with an alternative of three months' imprisonment would be howled at by the whole community as totally inadequate, and the probability is the Magistrate who had imposed the fine would be soundly abused for not having imposed a heavier penalty when this Council had taken away from him the power of doing so.
Hon. A. P. MACEWEN asked the Chief Justice if he would state his opinion.
The ACTING CHIEF JUSTICE—What my friend opposite (the Colonial Treasurer) has said about diseased cattle has convinced me. It is true that people did take up diseased cattle, and I think a fine of $200 would be almost inadequate for such an offence. I would like to see the person who committed it imprisoned without the option of a fine. Every case must be dealt with as it arises, and you must presume that magistrates are men of common sense and will deal with each case according to circumstances.
Hon. A. P. MacEwen—Don't you think three months' imprisonment would be sufficient even for such a grave offence as the Colonial Treasurer has mentioned?
The ACTING CHIEF JUSTICE—Certainly not; I would give a man twelve months for poisoning people.
His EXCELLENCY—This would apply in very exceptional cases, and it seems to me it cannot do any public injury.
A division was then taken on Hon. C. P. Chater's amendment, which resulted as follows:
AYES.
Hon. C. P. Chater
Hon. A. P. MacEwen
Hon. Wong Shing
Hon. P. Ryrie
NOES.
Hon. J. Bell-Irving
The Harbour-Master
The Surveyor-General
The Colonial Treasurer
The Acting Attorney-General
The Acting Colonial Secretary
The Acting Chief Justice
The amendment was therefore lost by a majority of three, and the clause adopted as it stood.
Clause 40, which provides that infected premises may be entered and inspected at any time during the day or night, was, on the motion of Hon. A. P. MacEwen, seconded by Hon. P. Ryrie, left over for further consideration.
Page 53
The ACTING Attorney-GENERAL said the words “not exceeding” ought to be inserted.
Hon. A. P. MACEWEN said he still thought penalty too heavy.
The ACTING CHIEF JUSTICE said he thought; the hon. member need not be afraid that the Magistrates would inflict the maximum penalty. Hon. A. P. MACEWEN said with all deference to His Honour, they were not dealing with pro. babilities. Such a case might ariso,
Hon. C. P. CHATER said he thought the fine of $200 was too heavy. He moved as an amend ment “not exceeding $100 or to imprisonmout not exceeding three months."
His EXCELLENCY-You must recollect this would only come into operation in a time of very great peril and under most exceptional circum- stances. It appears to me there is no danger, as His Honour remarked just now, in entrusting the Magistrate with that power in a moment of very great peril to the whole Colony.
The SURVEYOR-GENERAL said that under normal circumstances the penalty might be con- sidered very heavy, but the section would only apply when the circumstances were abrnormal, when the whole of the Colony was exposed to a most formidable danger.
Hon. C. P. CHATER-I do not think a heavy fine or being imprisoned for six months would prevent the people from infringing the by-laws, but having once done so I think the sentence would be too severe.
Hon. P. RYRIE said he agreed with his hon. friend on the right. He thought a fine of $100 or three months' imprisonment would be suff. cient. He therefore seconded the amendment.
The COLONIAL TREASURER-I really cannot agree with the gentlemen opposite. Perhaps they will allow me to remind them of what hap- pened at the time when there was cattle disease in the colony. Some cattle were slaughtered and buried on the other side of Happy Valley, but that was not sufficient to elude Chinese ingenuity and watchfulness, and some Chi- nose came and took up these loathsome car- cases, eut them up, and some portions were offered as human food in the market. That was only in the case of cattle disease. But suppose that what the Colony was threatened with was cholera or something of that kind, and suppose some Chinese compradore or trader to put fira dollars in his pocket-and he would do it with- out the slightest hesitation-lets loose upon the population the risk, or the certainty, perhaps, of cholera. I do not hesitate to say in that case a fine of $100 with an alternative of three months' imprisonment would be howled at by the whole community as totally inadequate, and the probability is the Magistrate who had im- posed the fine would be soundly abused for not having imposed a heavier penalty when this Council had taken away from him the power of doing so.
Hon. A. P. MACEWEN asked the Chief Justice if he would state his opinion.
me.
The ACTING CHIEF JUSTIC-What my friend opposite (the Colonial Treasurer) has said about diseased cattle has convinced It is true that people did take up diseas ad cattle, and I think a fine of $200 would be almost inadequate for such an offence. I would like to see the person who committed it imprisoned without the option of a fine. Every case must be dealt with as it arises, and you must presume that magistrates are men of common sense and will deal with each case according to circumstances.
Hon. A. P. MacEwan-Don't you think three months' imprisonment would be sufficient eveu for such a grave offence as the Colonial Treasurer has mentioned ?
The ACTING CHIEF JUSTICE-Certainly not; I would give a man twelve mouths for poisoning people,
His EXCELLENCY-This would apply in very exceptional cases, and it seems to me it cannot do any public injury.
A division was then taken on Hon. C. P. Chater's amendment, which resulted as fol- lows:
AYES.
Hon. C. P. Chater
Hon. A. P. MacEwen Hon. Wong Shing Hou. P. Ryrie
Noza.
Hon. J. Bell-Irving
The Harbour-Master
The Surveyor-General
The Colonial Treasurer
The Acting Attorney-General The Acting Colonial Secretary The Acting Chief Justice The amendment was therefore lost by a majo- rity of three, and the clanse adopted as it stood.
Članse 40, which provides that infected pre- mises may be entered and inspected at any time during the day or night, was, on the motion of Hon. A. P. MacEwen, seconded by Hon. P. Ryrie, left over for further consideration.
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